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 Post subject: Re: 8k edge
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:29 am 
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It is a hole in my education about stones that I don't have a coticule (or several 'types') so my comments on coticules aren't first hand knowledge.

Coticule users use a dilution technique starting off with a 'slurry' raised like a tomonagura - ie using a slurry stone, BUT this slurry is their coarsest level and one dilutes the slurry to a weaker and weaker slurry until one is just on the stone for the finest level of finish. The grit level of a coticule is more or less in the range of a Yaginoshima Asagi. It would be interesting to see which stone could get more refinement. The grit of a coticule is made of a multifaceted almost round (dodecahedron) particle so you don't get deep scratches with it. The grit of Japanese naturals is more flake like and breaks down into ever finer particles. In terms of the final level of finish a Japanese Natural (among the finer stones like a Nakayama or other exotics like Ashidani) can get considerably finer than a coticule.

This whole concept of natural stone edges lasting longer and feeling different is subtle yet real. It is something that is experienced once you are already acquainted with synthetic edges and quite interesting. This is a whole separate but interesting topic. I think straight razor users as opposed to tomato cutters have an advantage in that they can feel pain which provides feedback, unlike the tomato :) I find an interesting test is to see how well an edge cuts through a rolled up paper towel as opposed to slicing paper or newsprint.

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Ken



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 Post subject: Re: 8k edge
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:22 am 
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ken123 wrote: I think straight razor users as opposed to tomato cutters have an advantage in that they can feel pain which provides feedback, unlike the tomato :)
Ken


Yep. Honing a razor to a really comfortable level isn't easy! The skin doesn't lie! :)



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 Post subject: Re: 8k edge
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:31 pm 
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For the longest time I've just been using the edge straight off my Coticule. Great edge no complaints. I have an Asagi too that I don't use too much(not into razors anymore), cause it is really slow, very fine but slow. Based on Ken's recommendation I decided to try some poly-diamond spray I had sitting around(.05 micron) on the Asagi, to see if it would help it a bit. The Asagi is really flat; it looks like a sheet of glass in the light. :) I have to say that I have a new found love for my Asagi. The poly being water soluble, doesn't hurt the stone. You can feel the increased, smooth aggression to it. It left the edge ultra-fine and really sharp, but still with good bite. I think I could've refined it even a bit more too. :twisted: That's the only poly I have, and it's a bit too fine I think, but whatever...this combo worked really well as a finisher after the Coticule. Might get some .5 or 1 micron poly as a step before. Thanks for the tip Ken! :)

Blue #2 Fujiyama Gyuto
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 Post subject: Re: 8k edge
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:21 am 
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Hate to kill a sale, but for naturals I like to go with just what you used - in the 0.1 to 0.025 micron range. I try not to 'match' grits on naturals, but go finer. This leaves you with a predominantly natural stone finish rather than the poly or cbn competing with it. It isn't unreasonable to try coarser CBN for experimentation, but I think you are already there in terms of optimization. On synthetics I tend to match grits. On the natural it accelerates stone slurry breakdown AND provides additional horsepower for dealing with those abrasion resistant carbides. really brings out the character on very hard naturals. And also works even better with a tomonagura. Works like a 'spray nagura' LOL

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 Post subject: Re: 8k edge
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:21 am 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 8:38 pm
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Damn... Learned a lot from the responses here and a lot went way over my head. But, like so many have pointed out, I'm finding that my initial question about grit is insufficient. 1K, 4K, 8K etc creates a completely different edge character on the various knives/steel that I use. Some steels take a nice refined, but toothy edge at 1K and some take a completely aggressive/toothy edge at the same grit. Also suggested here, pretty sure I need to to start stropping to get the balance I'm looking for.
Other stuff, I.E. natural stones etc. I look forward to tackling in the not so distant future, and reading all your posts in the interim.


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