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 Post subject: 3 new knives wanted. Gyuto, 150mm and 75mm Petty
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
Posts: 7517
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Hello Mark,

How are you? First, thank you for your time the other day on the phone, I really appreciate it. I will be taking your advice and keeping the Kikuichi Warikomi Damascus I originally got. Being SS and VG10, it will be a great "everyone in the house can use with no problems" knife (my wife will most likely not wipe it)!

In these next few weeks/months I will be replacing my other Henckles knives in my block. I am looking at getting another Gyuto (when my wife and I cook together we fight over the 8", while the other has to use the 6"...). This one at 210 mm. I am also looking at getting a 150-165 mm petty, and 75 mm petty (to replace the 3" paring knife).

I have narrowed it down to these few in each category, what do you think?

Thank you again for your help, I am truly grateful for your expertise and guidance.


210 mm Gyuto (in order of perceived preference...):

Fujiwara Nashiji - says it is SS clad, but what is the core? I really like the look of the rustic, yet, very elegant finish of this. This is very compelling...
Konosuke Ginsan - stainless "3-silver", but I am not sure if it will do any patina? Not truly important, just curious.
Masakage Koishi - SS clad with AS core, I do like the pebble finish, but is that a laquer on the dark parts? I'd rather not deal with something that will eventually wear of...
Masakagi Yuki - SS clad with Shirogami #2 core.

150-165 mm Petty:
Tetsuhino Hammered - SS clad with White # 1 core (155 mm) - This is really beautiful, but does the food stick to the hammered dimple pattern on this type of finish?
Kanehiro Wa (150 mm): SS clad with AS core: very elegant and classic looking (like the Konosuke Ginsan, but this was not available in this size).
Moritaka Supreme (165 mm): AS for all. Really like the dark finish/contrast, but again, is it coated and if so will that wear off? Does food stick to that?
Masakage Koishi - AS for all. Compared to the Moritaka above?...

75 mm Petty (paring knife):

Masakagi Koishi (75 mm)...
Masakagi Yuki (75 mm)...
Any recommendations, or are these the way to go here?

My initial idea is to get the following:
Fujiwara Nashiji 210 mm Gyuto
Tetsuhino Hammered 155 mm Petty
Masakagi ? 75 mm Petty

Thank you, and I hope all is well.


S.



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 Post subject: Re: 3 new knives wanted. Gyuto, 15mm and 75mm Petty
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:36 pm
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Fujiwara core is white steel.

Ginsan is stainless and won't patina as a general rule. It can tarnish perhaps, or get water spots....but nothing like carbon will patina

Food sticks to hammered knives like the Tetsuhiro less so than other knives typically....at least in my experience.

The KU finish on the Moritaka's can wear off....yes. Food doesn't stick to it any more so than other knives.

If it were me, and I wanted those three knives in those lengths:

Fujiwara 210mm - absolutely....great, great knife.

I'd get the Fujiwara 150mm petty as well, but if you wanted to try different makers, get any of those you listed.

Paring....I'd get an all stainless knife like the Shun Class 3.5" paring knife



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 Post subject: Re: 3 new knives wanted. Gyuto, 15mm and 75mm Petty
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:18 pm
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
This is kind of arbitrary since you've already done homework and have picked a bunch of good choices that are all good quality knives.

210mm Gyuto: Of the ones you listed my favorite is the Konosuke Ginsan. I love the grind and the fit and finish on this knife. LOVE IT! The Yuki would be my second choice. I recommend the Yuki all the time. I know from our phone conversation that you have a flexible budget and want the best knife you can get within reason so get the Konosuke.

150mm Petty: I'm a big fan of cherry picking and not getting a matching set. It's more fun and you learn more about steel, makers etc. For this knife I would choose the Kanehiro followed by the Tetsuhiro. Again, all 4 are excellent and you would enjoy any of them but I think you would enjoy trying an Aogami Super steel knife and this one has stainless cladding and would be a good one to try after the Kono above. The Tetsuhiro is a great knife and the only reason why it's not recommended more is that nobody owns it. It's a chicken and egg kind of thing. The hammer marks actually release food a little so if anything it is less sticky but that's not a major reason to buy it.

75mm Petty/Paring (I tend to use these terms interchangeably): Get the Yuki. I love the Yuki and since I recommended the Kono for your Gyuto, here is a chance to try a knife from Anryu-san. He's a legend and one of the founders of the Takefu knife association that helped to preserve the city's rich blacksmith community from the Seki invasion of cheap, big factory produced knives. If not for him and a few of his contemporaries like Kato and some others we would all be buying Globals (I'm having fun here and that's a gross exaggeration).



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 Post subject: Re: 3 new knives wanted. Gyuto, 15mm and 75mm Petty
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:54 pm 

Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 8:38 pm
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Really good list. From my abbreviated understanding of the Konos, they are going to have more belly. The Masakages are going to have a flatter edge profile. Only know the TF Nashiji by reputation and can't comment on edge profile, but I would say this is something that will likely be important to you. If you tend to rock, or use more of an arcing motion when cutting, you will like a bit more pelly. If you push and pull cut, or do a lot of chopping, a flatter edge will suit you better. The Kono is also going to be undersized, and if it were me, that probably wouldn't be enough knife in 210.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 new knives wanted. Gyuto, 15mm and 75mm Petty
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:55 pm 
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+1 on the Kono Ginsan. It's a bit shorter @ 200-ish mm than some 210's, but it's a super nice knife.

IMO the Teruyasu Fujiwara core steel might be a little brittle or chippy for you, as it's White #1 is taken to such a high hardness level.

Two other 210 Gyutos to consider are the Anryu Hammered Blue #2: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/anhagy21.html
and the Kurosaki Megumi Hammered: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kumegy21.html.

That Tetsuhiro 150 Petty is an awesome knife! It's a little thinner at the edge and tip than the Kanehiro AS or Ginsan 150's, giving it better performance through softer product, but this also makes it slightly more delicate as well. You won't believe how well it flies through shallots, onions, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 new knives wanted. Gyuto, 15mm and 75mm Petty
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:06 pm
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I would skip the 75mm altogether and get a 165 and a 120mm if I were doing it over again. At work and at home, I use a 120mm, 150mm, and 210mm petties, and a 240mm gyuto. You'll find with a knife like the Tanaka Damascus petty that you can do all of the in hand paring you want, and still get down on the board. Just my 2¢


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 Post subject: Re: 3 new knives wanted. Gyuto, 15mm and 75mm Petty
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:35 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:58 pm
Posts: 13
Hello Everyone,

These are all great replies, I really appreciate them. They do shift a little bit of my thinking, but thankfully not by much.

I like the idea of the larger petty in place of the 75 mm.

Time for a cup of tea and some more deep "contemplation" (i.e.: more CKTG site time...;-)

Again thanks for the excellent replies, they are really helpful.

~Shea


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 Post subject: Re: 3 new knives wanted. Gyuto, 15mm and 75mm Petty
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:46 pm 
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Shea, glad we could help :-).

On the 75mm Petty/Paring, I'd think about how much in-hand paring, hulling, etc. type work you actually perform. If it's a frequent need, then a true 75-90mm Paring/Petty might be useful. If it's just occasional and you are more interested in a nimble knife for board work on smaller products and utility use, then keep your 3" Paring and get a 150-165 Petty.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 new knives wanted. Gyuto, 15mm and 75mm Petty
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:52 am
Posts: 320
I would make the exact same recommendations as Adam.

"If it were me, and I wanted those three knives in those
lengths: Fujiwara 210mm - absolutely....great, great knife. I'd
get the Fujiwara 150mm petty as well..." --Adam

Fear chippy not!

It all depends though on your tastes.

See post in this thread: post70619.html#p70619


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 Post subject: Re: 3 new knives wanted. Gyuto, 15mm and 75mm Petty
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:58 pm
Posts: 13
OK,

I think I am closer to it, now:

For the Gyuto:
I am looking at the Konosuke Ginsan, but at 240 mm

For the Pettys:
I am looking at Tetsuhino 150 mm (those hammered dimples are too hard to resist...),

and the Masakage Yuki 120 mm120. The Kanehiro is very tempting with the AS edge, as both Tetsuhino and Yuki are white steels for their cores, but I really like the thoughts Mark mentioned about the Yuki from Masakage's hand. Between the Yuki and the Kanehiro in 120 mm, are these fairly equal? The Kanehiro seems similar in aesthetics to the Konosuke Gyuto that I will be getting, while the Yuki has something a little different. I am sorry to pull the "looks" card here, but that is all I have at the moment via the internet!

(I don't do too much hand-held paring, so maybe I just keep the Henckels paring knife, for now to cover my 75 mm needs, such as they are...).

Thanks again,

~Shea


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