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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:49 pm 
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The Artifex AEB-L 240 Gyuto is also a very good knife. It has the best steel of the entry level Gyuto knives. It's blade shape is patterned roughly after the Masamoto KS, so it's got a more pointed tip and a pretty flat profile. The heel section is very flat, flatter than all the other knives discussed. I personally don't resonate with the heel flatness, but others love it. It's got a nicely finished blade with rounded spine and choil. The handle is very utilitarian, but bulletproof, and it has a surprisingly similar feel to a Wa handle that works great for a pinch grip. The Artifex is a little thicker at the edge for more durability, but at the expense of some performance. It responds nicely to grinding some of the edge bevel shoulders at a low angle to ease the transition from the edge bevel to the main blade. This can be something you perform later, after you gain sharpening experience.

AEB-L stainless is very easy to sharpen for a stainless steel, almost like a good carbon steel.

The Kohetsu AS 240 Gyuto is also very nice, but a different animal, with a Wa handle and a very nice AS core steel. The carbon steel at the edge will take on a patina, which you stated you didn't like. That's why I stuck with all stainless knife options for you.


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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:31 pm 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
solidsnake4 asked:

I am very highly considering it (kohetsu), I would need to wait a week or two until I receive a refund on some cycling related purchases to actually buy the knife but I am leaning to this one over the Masamoto. I figure this way I could try out the WA handle as well. Also, can you use some sort of stain or something on the wa handles if you want them a darker color? Just curious if I ever wanted to darken the color a bit from the fairly light color the pictures are showing. Thanks!

Sorry again to ask so many questions but this is all somewhat new to me and you are a great resource for this.



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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:33 pm 
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Yes you can stain them but I never like how they come out vs natural. It's up to you but they often are a little blotchy when stained unless you really sand them well first.



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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:01 pm
Posts: 121
Thanks Chef's!

Alright, after much thought and some more searching on the website I have narrowed my list down to the following:

Masamoto VG
Kohetsu Aogami Super
Sakai Takayuki Hammered Damascus WA
Kohetsu HAP40

After looking at a bunch of photo's online and doing a bit of thinking, I determined I would be ok with a bit of discoloring or marking along the cutting edge but NOT along the whole blade as I have seen on many carbon blades. If just a small section along the edge is a bit marked thats ok but I do not in any way want something like this
Image
I much prefer the clean and glistened cold steel type of look yet at the same time something slightly rustic is ok, just not the patina I'm showing here (to me it looks dirty or like the knife wasn't kept well)

Thanks again for all the help everyone, I really appreciate it and thanks to you guys I'm able to finally really get this focused in on what I want.

Also, any comparisons among these would be phenomenal.

Note too that I'm much more of a push cut/slicer than a rock and chop big belly knife


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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:01 pm
Posts: 121
Forgot to include the point as well that fit and finish issue due bother me, gaps in handles or wood along with rough edges would bug me and i think shouldnt really occur at the $200 price point...


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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:11 pm 
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Solid - the QL video on this product page shows what an edge patina might look like: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohetsublue1.html. This is a fairly light patina - it would get darker with use unless removed occasionally. Remember the patina is what can help protect the carbon steel a little from corrosion. You either like the look, or you don't.

The Kohetsu HAP40 has nice F&F and will keep an edge an extremely long time, but it will be more work to sharpen. The HAP40 steel is quite wear resistant, which is what contributes to such high edge retention. There's usually no free lunch.

Ease of sharpening IMO in order from easiest to hardest:
1. Kohetsu AS
2. Takayuki
3. Masamoto VG
4. Kohetsu HAP40

Edge retention IMO in order from lowest to highest:
1. Masamoto VG
2. Takayuki
3. Kohetsu AS
4. Kohetsu HAP40


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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:35 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:01 pm
Posts: 121
Thanks a bunch Steve!

That is very helpful in that it definitely allows me to eliminate the Kohetsu HAP40. I want something that is fairly easy to sharpen since this will be my first knife to learn sharpening on. Additionally, I'm ok with the edge retention not being the absolute longest possible because this would give me more chances to practice sharpening. Granted that doesn't mean I want something that dulls if you look at it wrong but you get the idea.

So the list is now down to the

Masamoto VG
Takayuki
Kohetsu AS

I didn't really love the look of the edge patina BUT it is something I think would be fairly tolerable to me if the knife was otherwise all around superior. It actually wasn't as distracting as I thought it would be, I'm used to mostly seeing full patina's throughout the blade so this was fairly muted in comparison.

Regarding the 3 left, I like the look of the Takayuki the best HOWEVER, the fit and finish issues shown and mentioned in the video for it would definitely bother me. I'm a bit of a perfectionist regarding that stuff so gaps around the handle or blade would be a big turn off....

Also, since this will be my 1 gyuto and I will be doing the vast majority of my cutting with it (everything from boneless protein to fruit to veggie to melon and squash) would something that is a slightly firmer blade be better?

Just trying to think of ways to par down the list further....


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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:31 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:24 pm
Posts: 298
Hi Steve, Have you seen the Kohetsu Blue #2 in 240 mm? Is the gap between the handle plates and the tang in the front of the handle still there or have they fixed it?

SolidSnake: The Kohetsu Blue #2 is carbon and takes on an incredible edge compared to the VG10 and 19C27 knives I also have. No matter how I sharpen the stainless knives I cannot get the same edge on them as the Blue #2 and probably likewise for the Aogami super in the kohetsu AS. The Blue #2 does patina but being stainless clad the patina is quite acceptable for me. I can easily polish that out with metal polish but I actually leave it on because the patina on the edge looks pretty neat. I would take a patina and the super sharp edge over a stainless blade that I can't get as sharp any day. The ease with which it slices through food is incredible, like butter. When I cut through tomatoes, fruit and vege what I feel in the hand and what my brain tells me I should be feeling in terms of the resistance of the blade passing through food just does not match up and it amazes me every time. The knife is a real joy to use. The AS is the same or better.


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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:39 am 
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"No matter how I sharpen the stainless knives I cannot get the same edge on them as the Blue #2 and probably likewise for the Aogami super in the kohetsu AS."

You need to try some AEB-L. My Randy Hauss AEB-L 240mm gyuto gets as sharp as most carbons.



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 Post subject: Re: 240mm Gyuto Recommendation?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:33 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:24 pm
Posts: 298
Ah yes, been thinking of getting an AEB-L to try. Don't have one yet. But right now I'm quite happy with my knife collection. Maybe I'll pick up a petty in AEB-L


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