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 Post subject: 210 Gyutos with less stick
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:47 pm 
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Location: Madison Wisconsin
Mark:

I have bought 3 very nice and interesting knives from you in the past:

Misono UX-10 240mm (for my personal use)
Masahiro 7" MV-H Santoku (for my personal use)
Masamoto 210mm gyuto (a gift for someone)

The only complaint I would have (and it's minor) is that I do experience a certain amount of sticking to the sides of the Misono and Masahiro knives when slicing certain foods.

I'm looking now for a gyuto/chef's knife in the 210mm range. I currently have a heavy old battle ax that I use occasionally for certain tasks requiring brute force - a 31071 8" Henckels chef's knife. I want something more fine with less weight in that size. I have noticed your Richmond Laser Aogami Super line and see that people seem to like them a lot, and that you have personally designed them. They are quite costly, but still seem like a good value for what you are getting. And hopefully, as shown in the video for the 240mm Richmond Laser Aogami Super gyuto, the design and manufacture is such that sticking to the sides would be less of a problem with this line. Any other suggestions for consideration in the 210 mm size?

I'm also interested in a ceramic rod that is compatible withe the Misono and Masahiro knives I currently own, as well as, potentially, a Richmond Laser Aogami Super, which I understand has a very hard edge. I currently use a standard Wusthof 10" steel, but find I am working too hard to get the edges really sharp on the Japanese knives. Something like the Idahone 10" fine ceramic rod? Please give me your suggestions here.

Thanks for your help in the past - it has worked out very nicely and I hope to purchase a nice 210mm gyuto from you in the near future. Congrats on your success with your Richmond knives - it's quite a tribute to your own lines.


Steve



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 Post subject: Re: 210 Gyutos with less stick
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Hi Steve,

Thanks very much!

What price range are you looking for?
Are you currently only using only a rod to sharpen your knives?

My laser is a good choice. So is the Kohetsu 210 Gyuto. Both of these use aogami super steel on the core edge so they will oxidize only on the edge if you don't wipe them dry after use. If that's ok I recommend both of them very much. There are others I like a lot in this general price range. If you would like to try another western knife the Kikuichi TKC 210 is a good choice. It's semi stainless steel so again just wash and dry after you use it. Another good one with aogami super core steel is the Hiromoto.

There are many others I could suggest but these are all a step up from the knives you purchased in the past in terms of edge holding. I think you will find all of them with better convexing than the Misono which is why they shouldn't stick quite as much. That said almost every thin knife will have less convexing than a thicker knife so they all will be a little stickier than a big beefy knife like your Wusthof. The flip side is they fall through food and hold an edge much better than a Wusthof.



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 Post subject: Re: 210 Gyutos with less stick
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:02 pm 
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Although the ceramic rods will technically sharpen your knives....it's meant more as a maintenance tool than a true sharpener. A steel honing rod will not sharpen your knives as it's typically not going to remove metal and is meant more to realign the displaced edge of soft steel knives.

The Idahone is a perpetual favorite....but you really need something else to sharpen your knives with at least periodically.

If you have questions about sharpening, please let us know.



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 Post subject: Re: 210 Gyutos with less stick
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:07 pm 
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STEVE <> Stiction is often a byproduct of flat grinds; some convexity helps splay food. Furthermore, laser thin knives inherently generate less stiction... generally speaking. Check out Mark's new Kohetsu <--link as it's truly a phenomenal product that is all you ask for: convexed, thin, and incredulously light.

As for the steel, I'd recommend learning how to strop as it's more versatile than a steel on hard steel knives. Check this video out... <--link You would also need this. <--link



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 Post subject: Re: 210 Gyutos with less stick
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:48 pm 
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Hi Mark:

Have read the forum posting but don't know how to respond through it to ask a few more questions and/or clarify things, hence this reply email:

1) I understand that steels and ceramic rods are only for maintenance - I touch them up every few days after some use and don't let them get dull at all.

2) I really wash & dry those nice knives I bought from you almost immediately after use (evn though they are stainless) and never put them in the dish rack, to prevent damage (and protect hands). You could say I pamper them. I am not afraid of dealing with a carbon steel edge.

3) Not sure I understand the difference between your Laser Aogami Super and the Kohetsu Aogami Super other than price and some of the blade dimensions - the descriptions are fairly similar. Is it just the handles? Can you briefly describe the difference the $40 gets you with the Laser model?

4) By Western, I assume you mean the handle style and possibly the angles on the edge? I guess I have had western or "western style" knives all my life, which would include the Misono and Masahiro. I am thinking it would be nice to have something different for a 210 gyuto/chef's, hence my interest in the Richmond clad model with carbon steel core and Japanese style handles.

5) Price is not my first concern - it is overall quality, durability, edge holding and general pleasure to use over the long run. I'm not looking to spend $500 on a single knife, but $200 plus or minus is in the price range. A few dollars extra outlay for the right knife amortized over its life is immaterial to me.

Given the additional info above, what would be your thoughts/recommendations. Thanks so much - I am finicky on purchases like this - I want to get the right stuff.

Steve



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 Post subject: Re: 210 Gyutos with less stick
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:56 pm 
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Hi Steve,

Ok, let me post this for you and I'll answer it too. To participate in the forum you have to sign up/register and then you can post stuff. But sending me this by email is fine.

1. Using a rod exclusively usually is not a long term method of keeping your knives sharp unless you use a diamond rod or something that removes steel. The reason is rods usually only work to straighten out your degrading edge but eventually you will loose the entire edge to wear and corrosion and you will be left with a rounded off nub and rods won't work at that point. I highly encourage you to learn to sharpen on stones. It's easy and quick and you will be able to shave with your knives after a few attempts.

2. Ok, then I would encourage you to try something like my Kohetsu or Laser.

3. The Laser is made in a smaller shop. It's thicker in the body of the knife, has a little nicer finish on the blade and is hand engraved with a little nice handle. Those are the main differences.

4. By western I'm referring to the handle shape (think Wusthof 3 rivet handle style or your Misono).

5. Get my Laser AS.



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 Post subject: Re: 210 Gyutos with less stick
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:08 am 
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The Laser AS have more convexing to the sides, which help push food away from the blade and the upper portion of the sides of the blade is slightly concaved, so food releases very well from the Laser As series knives!


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 Post subject: Re: 210 Gyutos with less stick
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:57 pm 
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Mark:
Before I pull the trigger, I want to be sure I am not leaving anything on the table by limiting my budget to $200 (+ or -) for a high quality 210mm Gyuto knife. Do I gain any really good options by opening the budget up to $300? Beside the criteria I mentioned earlier (overall quality, durability, edge holding, good non-stick and general pleasure to use over the long run), I wanted to state that, coming from the ax-like Henckels, I DO NOT particularly care about or want a "featherweight" knife like some of the lasers can be. Not being able to handle your AS 210mm, I can't tell about its "heft" - is it a "medium-light weight" (as the larger 240mm AS was described by the Knife Addict in its video?) The Kajihara 210mm at $270 was described as a definite medium weight by the Knife Fanatic, along with having several interesting and unique grind/design/fit & finish characteristics. Is that a knife I should be considering for an additional $70? (I'm not afraid of something like the carbon damascus cladding, so long as preventing rust/corrosion is not more difficult than conscientiously wiping, washing and drying the knife after use.) Again - pleasure in using this tool over the long run - no regrets - is what I am after here. Anything else I should look at at $300 or under?
I go through this somewhat excruciating exercise with other items I am interested in, such as bicycles and related gear, so I hope you will bear with me. Thanks again.

SS



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 Post subject: Re: 210 Gyutos with less stick
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:17 pm 
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The absolute epitome of a light weight, 210mm gyuto is the Suisin Inox Honyaki. Insanely light knife:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/suinhowa21.html

Weighs 4.2 ounces

The AS Laser weighs in at 5.4 ounces.

Other, work horse branded, wa-gyuto weigh upwards of 7 ounces. The Kajihara you mentioned is 7.2 ounces. Now, some of that additional weight is in the heavier handle too.

So, the AS Laser falls in the lower-middle end of weight for a knife.

An 8" Henckels chef's knife weighs 9 ounces per information I found. So, yes, all of these are lighter than the knife you're used to.

If you want something more close to the weight of your Henckels, but a thin blade....buy the AS Laser and have a custom handle put on it.



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 Post subject: Re: 210 Gyutos with less stick
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:19 pm 
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Steve - from your last communication, it sounds even more like the Richmond Laser AS 210 would be perfect for you. It's a light-middleweight with some weight forward heft to it, but it's still light overall compared to the Henckels, etc. This is a fabulous performer that's also a great value, considering it's construction and features. I don't think you'll regret getting the Laser AS at all.


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